In that same episode, after the snake was taken care of, the eliminated chef, Sieger, had a disagreement with his removal over a mousse that didn’t taste very good.
He even asked the producers to show him the Top Chef judging rules, which is a rare moment of drama for a show that usually avoids the typical reality TV conflicts. Simmons said, “We don’t do things just for reaction. That’s been a constant for many years.”
Simmons has been a Top Chef judge since the beginning and has been an executive producer for a long time.
Her main job is on the Emmy-winning series. But she also has other projects on her plate. In November, she’ll release her third book: Guesting: How to Show Up, Win Over Your Host and Make the Most of Any Occasion. During a recent episode of The Hollywood Reporter podcast I’m Having an Episode (Spotify, Amazon Music, Apple), Simmons talked about the timeline for another All-Stars season of Top Chef, discussed some lessons from her book—like what to do if you sit next to someone unpleasant at a dinner party—and, of course, shared her thoughts on being challenged at the Judges’ Table.
First, can I get a copy of the rules right now?
Yes.
We’ll provide the rules to anyone who needs them. It’s complicated. This season of Top Chef has been amazing. I think our chefs have cooked beautifully; they’re so interesting, and we’re getting down to the wire. As that happens, tensions run high. Sometimes it’s hard to make sure that everyone is clear on the reasons for our decisions. Our Asheville hurricane relief episode was great for a lot of reasons, but it also was a check for us as judges and producers on how we communicate clearly to our chefs and to our audience.
I’m sure he had his reasons, but it did remind me of the first two seasons when the show was much more about the personality and hotheadedness of reality.
Was it odd for you to experience after operating with such a different tone for so long?
It is always a bit of a check when a contestant fights back on a decision we make, but I appreciate it.
I was gonna say I like it, but that’s not the right word. It’s not that I like it. I don’t get thrilled by their frustration or by getting into conflicts with them. That’s not my role—certainly not anymore, nor was it ever— but as a show, to your point, we have come so far in the judging process. Our criticism is meant to be critical, constructive, helpful, and, also, it has to support the decision that we’re making. Sometimes that can be unclear, and I appreciate when our contestants question us if they aren’t clear.
Fair.
You don’t want them to just blindly accept all our decisions, because sometimes, we’re not right.
It’s possible that we aren’t seeing things clearly or that we don’t understand an intention or that we are misinterpreting information. So we always want to make sure we have that conversation and think, “Wait a second, are we playing by the rules here?” But in this case with Sieger, I think he didn’t understand how the game is played.
It did appear as if he got it after the producers handed him the rules and he read them aloud.
But who can tell?
They’re the rules.
The proof is in the pudding, so to speak. He was frustrated. I’ve seen this a lot with chefs because I understand that they don’t know what else we’re tasting, right? They don’t know what they are up against.
We’re also ignoring the fact that you were essentially attacked by a snake during this episode.
We were also attacked by a snake.
Side note: The morning that the chefs all moved from Greenville to Asheville to do their little day trip, Kristen [Kish] and I went for a bike ride on Swamp Rabbit Trail. About halfway through, we had to stop very abruptly because there was a giant black snake in the trail. I don’t see many snakes. I’m from Canada and I live in New York City. It’s very rare that I have seen snakes in my lifetime. Then, 24 hours later, we’re at this judge’s table in the middle of the forest. And Tom [Colicchio] casually mentions that there’s a giant black snake that’s about to wrap itself around our contestants and then slither right under the judges’ table towards us.
You have been working in various parts of the food world for your entire career.
How has your definition of good food changed?
Enormously. Think back to the beginning of just the show — it has been two decades, right? — my personal definition of great food and really fine dining has changed a lot. As a population, we've become much more educated. Our vocabularies are stronger about what we value and don't value about food. I also think we've all learned a lot about perspective on great foods from around the world. Even 20 years ago, certainly 30 years ago, the idea of fine dining and fancy food was all very Western. Now I think we realize just how many cuisines from around the world not only shaped the way we eat here in America, but need to be valued at the same level.
What is an immediate turnoff for you at a new restaurant?
Servers reading the table is important.
That and assuming that diners know more than they do. I want servers to assume we know more than we do. Yes, it's a new restaurant, I've never eaten here before and I'm excited for you to tell me what the best thing is. I'm excited to experience it. But assume and know that I've eaten at restaurants before. I don't necessarily need every single thing explained to me.
Gail Simmons, Kristen Kish, Tom Colicchio, and Ashleigh Shanti on season 23 of 'Top Chef.'
Paul Cheney/Bravo
I'm glad you bring up hospitality because you have a new book about being a good guest coming out in November.
It's called Guesting and it's a lot about hospitality, but taking a look at it flipped upside down.
Very little has ever been written about what it's like to be a guest and how we can do it better too — how being a guest is a reciprocal relationship. I think that being a guest is something that has fallen to the wayside. We don't think about it that much. And I think that's why there's a lot of loneliness in our world right now. And it's very easy to kind of say "no" and doom scroll on your couch and your sweatpants. But if we all got up and cared for our communities a little better, I think it would just benefit all of us. It's just about the reciprocal relationship of a guest and a host.
To your point, I don't feel vulnerable when I'm hosting a dinner party.
I feel vulnerable when I'm in someone else's space and want to be helpful but not annoying.
There's a lot of social anxiety around it!
What do I bring? What do I wear? What if I don't know anybody? What if they seat me beside an asshole? What if I have an allergy? What if I am running late? All these things that are rightfully anxiety-provoking and awkward. Let's talk about them and give a bit of a roadmap so that everybody can do it better.
Is there a passage about what to do if you're seated next to an asshole?
Yes!
We've all been seated next to an asshole. It's more about the fact that it's finite. You can do it, because you're an adult. It's just a meal, even if it's feeling like forever. My advice in those scenarios is to change the subject or turn to the other person on your other side, make some small talk, and then make an excuse to get up and check on your host or say hi to a friend across the room. Maybe you load the dishwasher — after you've asked first, because people are very specific about their dishwashers. Never load anyone's dishwasher without asking.
Never load my dishwasher.
Period.
Right?
If they say no, maybe you can just clear the glasses if you really need to get away from the asshole. There's always things you can do.
Back to Top Chef, so much has been written about how GLP-1 usage is impacting the restaurant industry and food in America.
I went into this season of the show half-expecting a GLP-1 challenge.
We are not there yet.
I mean, everybody's got a price. (Laughs.) So if someone wants to make us an offer, I'm sure we can accommodate one. But, as of yet, it's really not our MO. It is a conversation that restaurants are absolutely having. People are eating less. Portions are going down, which, in some ways, is a good thing. Portions in this country have usually been huge. It's a conversation because it also does affect the bottom line. If they're smaller, you can't charge the same amount for them and the cost of food is so, so high right now. Restaurants are struggling with the margins because there are none. Lowering prices isn't gonna get the rent paid. It isn't gonna get the staff paid. It's a complicated conversation, and I think we're still in the early phases of seeing how it really affects the world and the economy of restaurants. It scares me a little bit. Well, it scares me for a lot of reasons. But on Top Chef, we're still just thinking about the quality of the food, not the quantity. Thank goodness.
Do you watch any other food television?
A little, not a ton.
I don't watch a lot of other competition shows. There's like a couple travel shows I've been really interested in seeing lately. I'm interested in the ones that explore and feel like they're a new take on something that we really haven't done before. It's getting harder and harder to do that.
How often do you think the show can do an All-Stars season?
I asked that question. I think, right now, more often than not, more than 300 people have been on Top Chef. A lot of them are well-known, loved, and have gone on to do amazing things. Take the Food Network, for example. They keep doing shows with the same talented people again and again. I think we could do something similar. As long as we change the all-star seasons with new ideas, but keep the same structure for our show, I think we could probably do another one soon.
I'm glad you mentioned the Food Network.
I've been saying this for years, but I really believe they've become the Top Chef Senior Tour.
Exactly.
We're a casting agency, and we all know it. We all laugh about it. I follow a lot of them on Instagram. When they announce a new cooking competition show, eight out of 10 chefs are former Top Chef contestants, winners, or fan favorites. But there's a reason for that. Bravo doesn't really have a path for them after the show. We give them a lot of opportunities and a platform, and then we send them out into the world. Unless we create a whole network of shows for them to work on, it's good for them. The best ones are finding great opportunities on their own. I love that they're all still cooking. They're working really hard.
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